WC – 5-26-07 – too fast or too slow?
we do a lot of hymns at our church – some contemporary in style and some in the traditional 4-part-harmony flair.
and i love it. i was raised on hymns. it brings me back to my spiritual roots, as i’m sure it does for a LOT of our congregation.
we’ve had an ongoing discussion with a man in leadership at our church that we need to play the hymns faster: “the words lose their meaning when droning on slowly.”
ok. so we’ve been working on that.
sunday we kicked off the service with a robust traditional version of “When We All Get to Heaven”… it was sharp, crisp, and fast. i thought we’d hit the mark.
as i’m concluding the song with “please take a moment to greet those around you” i see an older lady in the back shake her head and mouth “its too fast – too fast”.
of course, i “take a moment to greet” her and she gently explains that we play the hymns too fast. “the words lose their meaning when we sing them too fast.”
we, in fact, had a great conversation about this predicament, but i personally don’t have a solution yet.
i think around here we’d all say that we can’t get it right for everyone.
and we’d all agree that some songs have more “feeling/meaning” when sung faster, and some songs – the same – when sung slower.
yes.
but.
i’m looking beyond my “gut instinct” here, to have some “authoritative” answer.
do any of you know of a hymnal or song book or website that features hymns and also have tempo notations for these hymns?
HELP!
songlist:
When We All Get to Heaven – Karen Mitzo Hilderbrand and Kim Mitzo Thompson
My Redeemer Lives – Reuben Morgan
Hope of the Nations – Brian Doerksen
Knowing You – Graham Kendrick
Oh Jesus I Have Promised – John E. Bode and Arthur H. Mann
I appreciate the fact that you took the time to go straight to this lady, find out exactly what she meant, and consider it rather than dismissing it. I think there’s a big fear that if we as leaders don’t “stick to our guns,” we’ll wind up being swayed by everyone’s opinion. I disagree. To write someone’s opinion off because they’re “old” (which is done frequently) or closed-minded is to miss what could be valuable input.
Cyberhymnal.org is a great repository for public domain hymns (but I’ll bet you already know about it), and they have MIDI files for almost all of them. However, I’ve noticed that the tempos on those things aren’t always in line with what I’ve grown up listening to. I don’t know if there really IS a definitive tempo guide for hymns. I’d bet that it’s a regional thing.
Dean:
honestly, i’m not a very “confrontational” person, but i was SO amused by what happened that i had to go up to her to give her the chance to be heard.
anyway, i checked out cyberhymnal this morning. their tempos don’t line up with my inner hymnal metronome either, but, hey, i COULD be wrong!
I don’t have a website to refer you to, but I did have a comment. You can’t accomadate everyone when it comes to music. I believe that’s one thing we all learn fairly quickly. We all have our own version and tempo that we do things. We just need to feel our the congregation and most importantly the Holy Spirit. I mean…is the tempo really affecting their worship. If it is affecting a lot of people then it might need to change. Just a thought.
I usually go for good old-fashioned arrogance. I pick the tempo, I’m always right, deal with it. What it loses in humility it makes up for in efficiency.
(Just kidding… mostly)
this is where trying to accommodate everyone attempts to be a win-win situation, but can end up a lose-lose. I don’t have a resource like your looking for, but I would just say that you are doing a GREAT thing by trying to listen to your congregation and be sensitive to them. Stay encouraged!
Wow, what an interesting situation. What’s funny for me is that even though I’m on the younger side of these sort of situations (I’m 28), I’m usually the one saying the hymns are too fast!
Often times people will play “slower” hymns was to fast and “faster” hymns way too slow. I think the issue though, is that hymn writers (as far as I know) never did put down any tempo markings. That sure would help! Perhaps you could do it faster during one meeting and then come back to it at a slower tempo?
Peter: well, so far i know that its affecting one when its too slow, and one when its too fast. i might take some time to ask some of the other older generation if we are playing at the right speed. but then again, i don’t want to prime the pump for more input than i’m inviting, so it might be best to keep things where they are.
Ryan: i think you’re right. the tempo markings weren’t passed down. so we’ve tried to use the “tone” and “meaning” of the hymns to gauge tempo – and seem to come up short, depending on which you’re talking to.
Mark: mostly? hahaha! i don’t think i can pull the “i’m the hymn authority” card on them. they wouldn’t believe me. i told the lady in the above story that i was raised on hymns in church – sang in the choir, etc. her eyebrows shot up & she said: “REALLY?!?” “Yes ma’am, i wasn’t raised with the guitar in church.”
but, still… they have YEARS of hymn-singing on me.
We’ve been uber blessed by Indelible Grace Music http://www.igracemusic.com. Their new arrangements for old and sometimes forgotten hymns are very well done. Even if you stick with the original or a slightly different arrangment, they give you new ideas. Red Mountain Church is a good resource too.
When it comes to tempo, I rarely choose the tempo soley on the song itself, but rather on the placement in the service and its relation to other songs. We sing several hymns several different ways, even a few with different melodies (I know that sounds crazy).
For example:
Amazing Grace–common 3/4 timing, 4 part arrangement and Tomlin version 4/4 timing, music team/band arrangement. Oddly enough the Tomlin version is a much slower tempo, but it fits with the 4/4 change as well as additional chorus.
At my church, this is usually more of a humorous “too fast/too slow” exchange rather than a serious complaint. I do find it humorous, though, that some folks think there’s something about the “time signature” that tells us how fast to play the song. Guess I haven’t learnt that one yet…
I sooooo feel your pain! It happens with tempos, volume, instruments… eep.
>do any of you know of a hymnal or song book or website that features hymns and also have tempo notations for these hymns?
I don’t know if the tempos are right on all the time (I’d assume so though, but it does depend on your particular church’s tradition in doing each particular hymn), but there is a site with many of the common hymns & praise choruses with lyrics & MIDI audio:
http://www.preciouslordtakemyhand.com/christianhymns/
I often use this site if I see something un- or less familiar to me or even to practice!
haha – I’m laughing because this is so true. I agree with Amanda – instruments, volume, everything becomes a point of contention. Everyone thinks they alone deserve artistic authority.
Even if you followed a printed tempo people would still complain about it.
I think the answer lies in what you are doing – talking to people. (and mad props for doing so.) You may not be able to convince everyone that they should change their opinion, but I’ve found people are more willing to follow me somewhere when we know each other.
“I agree with Amanda – instruments, volume, everything becomes a point of contention. Everyone thinks they alone deserve artistic authority.”
Artistic… more like “religious authority” – or maybe both.
I’d love to invite you to upload any original songs that are well produced to worshipsong.com. It’s a place for your songs to be heard and for you to be able to sell downloadable mp3’s rhythm charts, etc.
Blessings…
Holland Davis
http://womeninworship.wordpress.com – new layout, like or dislike? Other ideas?
I was getting bored with the other one, & hope this might bring more activity… who knows.