saying goodbye to “Holy is the Lord”
i’ll get right to it: we decided to cut Giglio/Tomlin’s “Holy is the Lord” from our master song list…
gasp.
we did…
the worship committee (comprised of me, our interim pastor, and an older gentleman that’s been around but loves a blended style of worship) plans the service as a group. this means i don’t fly solo in song selection. about a month ago we (the worship committee) decided to remove Giglio/Tomlin’s “Holy is the Lord” from our master list…for one simple reason:portions of the lyrics (lift up our hands…bow down…now) are not accurate for our more traditional baptist congregation, and we are VERY hesitant to lead others in speaking words that they do not mean.
the lyrics are present-tense lyrics that speak of present-tense actions, and the vast majority of our congregants didn’t express these actions. ever. for a year. very little hand lifting and NO bowing. we wondered how we can stand before God and sing “we bow down…now” if no one (not even the worship team) is bowing? (sorry chris & louie)
we’re not doing with our bodies what we’re saying with our mouths.
i know this may sound extreme, but we genuinely believe that presenting these lyrics to this congregation could be considered asking them to lie.
granted, there were many great reasons to present this song to our congregation, which is why we had it on the master list and sang it frequently for nearly a year:
- there is a value in challenging our congregants to grow in their expression of worship.
- there is also a value in teaching/educating them various modes of worship.
- there is much value in allowing our small number of hand-raisers to have a contextual opportunity to raise hands.
- there is integrity in wanting to want something, and singing about that because you want it.
i know this may sound extreme. but i don’t know if its an extreme case. God takes our words seriously, and we believe we should as well…especially when we are speaking to Him.
its a great song. it DOES incorporate physical acts of worship that are biblical… and i’ve seen it inspire others to worship by lifting and bowing.
part of me is sad to see it go.
we haven’t yet run all our master list songs through this grid, but here are some other songs that we are concerned about:
In the Garden
Every Day with Jesus is Sweeter than the Day Before
Come, Now is the Time to Worship
In the Secret
so, i’m wondering what y’all think about this… how far do we push the worship envelope on a congregation that isn’t really following that far?
what would you have done in this circumstance? ever experienced this?
I guess I can understand the decision, but I’d be much more driven, instead, to teach our congregation to praise Him Biblically, or at least challenge them to do so. Remember that the book of Psalms was at one time the church’s hymnal, and it mentions all sorts of outward expressions that SHOULD be true of us when running after God. During youth, ever since Fred first said it, I tend to – when the kids are ‘expressive’ – pause the song and ask whether they feel silly singing something they know SHOULD be true of themselves that isn’t, then I push them to lift their hands when we re-sing the verse. They ‘get it’ now.
p.s. – “In the Garden” is heretical poopie, and on top of that the lyrics are pure drivel – I’d rather sing “Oops, I did it Again”, if I had a choice.
It’s refreshing to hear that you are truly considering the lyrics of the songs. I, too, have always been acutely aware of “here-and-now actions” types of songs. For this reason, I’m totally not a fan of “I Could Sing of Your Love Forever.” You know the bridge? “Oh I feel like dancing…”? No one ever dances! (Plus it’s over some minor chords, so it’s not very dance-inspiring anyways…)
Good thoughts…thanks for sharing.
Hmmmmm…you’ve probably opened a can here…
Mandy I think you know me and I truly care for you and what you are doing. You are in a tough position. You are being asked to lead and yet you are being led by a group of people that in my opinion may have a personal agenda. I probably have a lot I could say about this, but I do not want it to sound critical of you or the church leadership you work with. If you would like my opinions, let me know via email and I would be happy to share with you.
Wow. & such a favorite of mine & of our church. Our little Baptist church does the hand raising (not always but some do at some times) & stuff, & on this song (which ironically was added on the fly just before worship to our set today) I usually act on that part unless I’m playing flute..
It amazed me–we recently began incorporating Hillsong United’s The Stand into our rotation, & during one service where we did things differently (essentially doing a few songs, then the sermon, then the rest of the music set–usually all the music is first), & after a particularly moving beginning to the worship & sermon, people were doing exactly what the lyrics say in this song:
“I’ll stand with arms high & heart abandoned
in awe of the One who gave it all…”
Even people I wouldn’t have expected it from! It was one of the more *outwardly* worshipful times we’d had in a while.
The next week we ‘reinforced’ the song & not as many ‘acted out’ the lyrics, but nonetheless…
Our Southern Baptist church surprises me at times (I’m known to jump during songs..uh, heh, yeah–”God is Great” is one of those songs for me… *sheepish grin*)
I think some of the Psalms speak of raising hands in worship, if you need some ‘proof’ – heh. Actually I just found this: http://jcsm.org/Online/WeeklyDevotions469.htm#Day 1:
I didn’t know there were so many verses relating to ‘lifting our hands to God’! Nifty.
wow…what are the lyrics for in the garden?
Right on Mandy. I get pretty sick of every other song containing a line like “we lift up our hands.” when either no one does, or it becomes very campy handmotionish with a quick lift then a drop.
I like singing that song and yeah I raise my hands when I do.
Although I will say when I sing the line “we bow down” somehow I always picture my “bowing” in a spirutal sense, like bowing my heart. Honestly I’ve just always thought of this song in this way and never even thought to physically bow even though I do physically stand and lift up my hands. I guess you can spiritually “bow down.” I wonder if you can you spiritually “raise your hands?”
This is such a great question. I commend you and your co-planners for taking what you do so seriously. I have made similar decisions about other songs…. like back in the “I Could Sing of Your Love Forever” days, we never, ever sang the bridge:
Oh, I feel like dancing -
it’s foolishness I know;
but, when the world has seen the light,
they will dance with joy,
like we’re dancing now.
Our congregation was never headed in any direction close to dancing. We haven’t ruled out “Holy is the Lord”, because it is one song that, because of the lyrics, actually causes people in our congregation to do things like lift their hands. Which brings up another question: which is worse, leading people in a song with lyrics that describe responses they are not displaying, or leading people in a song during which they display certain responses only because they’re singing about it?
I think you are wise to evaluate the songs you use in this manner. Like anything, there is a risk of going to the extreme. But I agree that there is much to fear in leading people toward being ‘numb’ to the words they are singing.
Mandy,
Joy and I joked around a bit that we were going to change the lyrics to that song to “we don’t sing and we sit on our hands” .. (the rhythm isn’t exactly the same, but it’ll fit”.
Also, on Shackles, after Easter, we thought of revising it to “take the shackles off my feet, but I ain’t gonna dance”.
Tough spot. Sounds like you gave it a good year or trying.
My only thought to share w/ your committee (great idea, btw, one that we are implementing at SSCC) is that just pulling the song and saying nothing is fruitless – in a loving, kind way – I’d find a way to express that to the people WHY you don’t sing that song anymore.
But OK – forget physical expressions – what about all the songs that make us sing “I’m desperate for you”, “You’re all I want”, “I’m madly in love with You”, and all these other confessions that we say, we sing, yet we don’t live – not even close.
I mean .. c’mon, everytime I sing a line like that “You’re all I want” I almost think I hear myself saying “yeah, right … I wish that I really felt that way”.
Truth is, many .. MANY times, even though that SHOULD be the truth, it just isn’t. WE’re fallen, and but for the grace of God, we could never sing that!
Just my $.02.
Fred
What does “bow down” mean? Does it always mean to physically bow down or can it also mean to “bow down” in spirit?
I’ve responded to your post at my site…Please know that I don’t intend to disrespect you or your church. I just have to disagree, in love. I’d love to have more dialogue about this issue.
Mandy,
Tough line there. I have changed my mind 4 times since I read your post and the comments. I think that it is tough to through out right theology for the lack of its practice in the body. I completely understand the decision but it sounds like it could be a slippery slope, leading to more than songs being thrown out of the rotation if it is practiced that way.
This is an extreme example, but, it is in line with the same thinking maybe… People are really offended when in Revelation it says that we are luke warm so Christ in essence spits us out of His mouth because we are undesirable. So, yeah, lets just not use that verse. (I also understand that a chorus is not canonized scripture.)
I got into a discussion with a worship leader on youth retreat about this a few years ago. He criticized out kids because of a similar situation, the lyrics suggested an action that most kids didn’t do. (I think it was bowing down from Here I Am to Worship.) He said, “how can you sing that if you aren’t doing it?” And I asked back, “You picked the songs, how can you expect the people to all feel the same way as you when you sing them?”
It lead to our agreement that it was the worship leader and band’s role to lead by example. I guess that begs the question, is the band willing to do those things up front and lead by example, to teach the congregation about worshipping? Or is it maybe that, well, the church doesn’t want that sort of thing going on so lets not sing about it?
I am just thinking out loud here, and maybe my Bible verse example was a bit extreme, then again, maybe it wasn’t. I don’t know. Just a discussion here right?
-Travis
(P.S. I’ve been praying for your sister-in-law. Hope she is getting some good answers and better health.)
[...] haven’t done in well over a year since we (like many churches) felt they had been over done. Mandy’s post yesterday about cutting “Holy is the Lord” echoes some of the same thoughts I had [...]
Worship Confessional: October 21, 2007 : Consuming Worship said this on October 22, 2007 at 12:10 pm |
It’s an interesting dilemma. As someone who participates in leading worship, I have often felt a little silly singing this and similarly-themed songs while not doing any of the things that we’re singing about. However, I think that equating it with asking someone to lie is also a little silly. Do we march into an actual battle with a giant cross while singing Onward Christian Soldiers (not that anyone sings that anymore)? I appreciate your intentions here, but I think you get into pretty murky territory when you start to over analyze things to this degree.
Hmmm…interesting maneuver. Personally, I would have kept the song (it IS a good song) and focused an effort in to teaching the congregation about worship and why raising our hands and getting on our knees is a significant in worship. I might be treading on glass with this question, but by dropping the song, aren’t you just ignoring the larger problem?
Actually, there’s an interesting take on raising your hands here:
Raised Hands in Church Make Better Doors than Windows
[...] 22nd, 2007 @ 7:31 am | Questions, Artists, Worship leading Over the weekend, I happened to see this post over at my good friend Mandy’s blog, and it really troubled [...]
Theology vs. Imagination | milestoneworship said this on October 22, 2007 at 1:50 pm |
I’m not sure where I stand on this one. I had similar thoughts yesterday morning as we sang “I Could Sing of Your Love Forever.” I always feel like we’re lying when we sing that song because it doesn’t reflect my church. Then, I rationalize it by saying, “well, we’re probably dancing on the inside.”
Ugh, I’ve got to ponder some more.
There are few songs where the song says we are doing this or that like “I could Sing of Your Love Forever.” I get a little depressed when we don’t lift up our hands this certain parts of the song, but we can’t force worship. It is the Holy Spirit that really guides the congregation to worship our King. So, I pray constantly for our church. I pray that they would have broken hearts and revival fire would stir their hearts to praise.
[...] for her. So as a reward for learning to ride a bike I busted out my SG and taught Evie how to play Holy is the Lord. It was a glorious moment for me. I’ve given guitar lessons to more kids than I can count and [...]
The Beginings of a Rockstar « Billy Chia said this on October 23, 2007 at 1:17 am |
Love the way you guys are thinking critically. I think though, that there is an element of aspiration in Christian worship. I think sometimes we have to sing what we want to be/do and aren’t being/doing yet. And I don’t think it’s hypocrisy.
You could take a pessimistic view and say when you sing “I Surrender All” that you’re making liars out of 100% of the congregation. Or you could say, that some lyrics we sing express our hopes for our continuing growth in holiness. I Surrender All is a song that has been with me sing childhood, and serves as a reminder/prompt to affirm Jesus’ lordship as I go. It may not reflect the objective truth about my life in the cold light of reality, but it does reflect the best part of my heart toward God.
Just a thought.
Interesting stuff – I appreciate the shepherd’s heart behind the decision. I lead in a pretty conservative congregation myself, and when I first introduced this Tomlin song, I got a similar response. It’s been encouraging though to see some folks come out of their shells and authentically have their words and actions line up.
One thing that I think had a drastic impact on this issue for us, was this last summer when I got to go with some of our youth up to a StudentLife camp. One night the speaker, Jeremy Kingsley, spoke about a certain time in his life where he was fed up with hypocrisy and made a promise to never sing a song lyric that he wouldn’t do. It was really interesting to watch the kids at camp embrace that concept and let their personal walls fall down through the rest of the week. Not only that, it still gets me choked up to watch from the stage how that influence has rubbed off on other generations within our church body.
I agree with a suggestion mentioned above of explaining the heart behind the song’s removal – and possibly having a similar teaching moment from the stage about our authenticity in the words we use in corporate worship.
Here is my question then. Do we stop reading the Bible or at least the portions of the Bible that we “don’t do” yet?
I am not trying to get argumentative, but when you sing worship songs(that are scripturally accurate, as Holy Is The Lord is), you are singing scripture. Do we just stop quoting, reciting or reading passages of scripture that we aren’t spiritually mature enough to handle yet?
I know this may sound silly, but I am having a hard time seeing the difference between not reading it or not singing it, because of lying.
Is not worship a transformation act as we encounter CHRIST, the anointed one? So many songs at times do not convey the heart of us as “individuals” but is not worship our RESPONSE TO OUR CREATOR?
The removal of songs or over analytical mindset that has crept into the church i believe, with respect, is what has caused us to be no different than what is in the world. If Pastor Oprah and Prophet Madonna have as much affect or even greater effect, then when is it up to us to allow GOD to do what He does as we begin to simply speak (sing) even if we are not yet doing. God sees us as what we will be in the future not what we are in our present.
Worship, transformational, no matter the song….minor chord or major….it is not about us….IT’S ALL ABOUT HIM.
I think the argument about “lifting spiritual hands” or “bowing down spiritually” is kinda goofy. No offense.
But If I’m not mistaken most, if not all, of the psalms’ depictions of worship actions were literal. When the psalmist writes (sings) “Sing a new song to the Lord” he means make up some new tunes/words and sing them spontaneously to the Lord.
When the psalmist writes “Hey people, clap your hands and shout to God!” he means applause and raise your voice.
When the psalmist says “Hey, let’s bow down before the One who made us” he means to get on your knees or face down!
Obviously, though, all of these actions were/are to be the outpouring and overflow form a HEART turned towards God.
If your people aren’t doing evangelism are you going to stop preaching about it? hope not. The logic behind this decision is faulty and probably inconsistent with other declarations you are making that people are not participating in fully. I’d attempt to educate and challenge (just like I would if they weren’t doing evangelism). Some people say, I just don’t raise my hands. Okay, then don’t do it when your favorite team kicks a piece of pig through a metal goalpost, and I’ll grant them their consistency claim. Otherwise, their value structure is whacked out a bit.
No ‘Holy Is The Lord?’
I was reading over at Blending Worship an interesting post on a church getting rid of the song ‘Holy Is The Lord’ by Chris Tomlin. At first I was thinking – whats up with these people? But then I read and it appears they have valid poi…
TheBlog of TheZach said this on October 23, 2007 at 10:33 pm |
[...] Is The Lord?’ I was reading over at Blending Worship an interesting post on a church getting rid of the song ‘Holy Is The Lord’ by Chris Tomlin. At first I was thinking – whats up with these people? But then I read and it [...]
No ‘Holy Is The Lord?’ « TheBlog of TheZach said this on October 23, 2007 at 10:33 pm |
Great challenge to consider about lyrics and physical responses. But do we have to measure everything by the physical and immediately at that? What if folks are raising their hands and bowing at home after having sung that song in a corporate setting? What if the songs we do together are the stimuli for the week ahead that includes private worship? This is good always ask why we do what we do. Let’s continue to pray for God’s leading as we make “tough” decisions.
I know what you mean on that song. I never use that as an opening song, because of the way it starts.
But I agree with what was said above about educating on the postures of worship, and giving people corporate opportunities to practice and learn together.
We did a neat prayer time where we had people bow, and tied it into some of our postures before God.
In response to inWorship question: absolutely not.
The heart behind what that speaker was saying wasn’t so much to stay silent so as to stay authentic, but rather to take action in seeking to have our affections and our action line up with the words we sing and the scripture we read. The cool thing was that rather than seeing a bunch of students stop singing because they felt self-conscious about raising hands, I saw those students embracing the scriptural foundation of those words, the Christ-exalting heart behind the words, and they began more and more to outwardly express their relationship with Christ. Coming from a fairly conservative church this was quite a step to watch these kids take.
What I personally took away from that quote wasn’t so much that we should omit things that we aren’t ready for, but that we should seek to change in that moment, or quite possibly we should sing those songs and read the scriptures with a repentant and maybe even mournful heart over the truth that we don’t love and live for Christ to the extent that He deserves and commands. *I’d* say that if we can’t sing/read it because we mean and do it, then we should sing/read it with an intense desire to change and be changed for the sake of His glory.
Hey Mandy, you haven’t piped in much and I would love your thoughts. Based on what Travis just said…which I agree with…how would that affect the decision you guys have made. I see this as a proper response to people’s actions. Education, encouragement and then allowing them to be changed by God’s move in their lives.
“if we can’t sing/read it because we mean and do it, then we should sing/read it with an intense desire to change and be changed for the sake of His glory.”
InWorship, Travis…. i think these ideas (of permitting and expressing the “want to” of worship) are great, but i’m not sure if this song is a “want to” song, or if our people would be viewing it as a “want to” song. maybe there are more fitting ways to reflect the people’s “want to”. maybe we should write songs that lyrically reflect a “want to” attitude.
“We want to lift up our hands, for the joy of the Lord is our strength…
Help us bow and worship Him now. How great, how awesome is He.”…???
as for travis’ suggestions effecting the decision we made to “drop” this song, i don’t necessarily think that would fit our congregation. this church has only been singing modern worship songs for about 2 1/2 years…. we are doing good to have most of our members sing with screen projected songs rather than the hymnals. *that* is huge growth for us. even though i don’t think the authenticity of our worship is effected by hymnals or screens, for them its a radical movement towards a different feel of worship.
our church’s culture of Sunday worship has changed DRASTICALLY in in the past few years: they’ve removed the organ and choir sound, we use projection more than hymnals… we’ve also added responsive readings, drums, a female guitar driven worship leader, drums, college & seminary students that stand in front and raise their hands, (& did i mention drums?).
looking at all the above changes made in the past 3 years, i think this shows there’s a willingness to “change and be changed for the sake of His glory” in this church…
for our church at this time, its a question of how far to push the envelope… there are a handful of visiting college students that wouldn’t have a problem if i stood up there and introduced this song and said “now, if you feel comfortable getting out of the pews and bowing, then please know that we want you to do this…” but i don’t think this tone is an accurate depiction of our current church membership as a whole.
i’m thoroughly enjoying this discussion… there’s SO much to chew on with the comments and perspectives of others. i wish i had time to respond to all the comments – they are great!
thanks for the thoughts,
mandy
Thanks Mandy, i think you know my heart. There is always a battle in churches for this or that. I hope that we in leadership roles can continue to challenge and think through these ideas.
I am a passionate person and this will come across when I blog. I do realize though that it is not my business to tell you and your community what to do. I am not there and I am not having to deal with the same decisions you are making.
You’ve brought up a great thought here as well, and that is, your church is unique. All of our churches are. We should value that, while upholding what is solid, the God we serve and worship. You’ve given us a great example of what to do. Get to know your churches. Get to know what they need to move forward in their growth and then learn how to teach them. You guys are doing that.
So, what can we chat about next
Well, I don’t work with a committee, per se; but I don’t go to that type of church either.
My husband and I are very conservative about lyric content (and I brainstorm with him often). Also my pastor trusts in my leadership (proven).
I see what you’re saying, but that line of reasoning could say that you should only teach what people know and do.
If it isn’t true for them now, then you can’t teach it?
In a teaching (even secular) line of thinking, to me (as a teacher) it doesn’t make sense.
We create goals for people. We inspire them to move toward the Lord.
I’ll never forget the time in Children’s Ministry about 1998 when I was leading worship I used to sing a song by Don Jakson (CC Murietta) that said “I will raise my hands to the heavens and sing from my heart, You are Lord, Yes you are Lord…”
And this huge 6′ 5″ 300 lb all muscle bad boy image teacher of ours stood up, lifted his hands, and began to cry. For the first time! WOW.
But you have to follow your pastor’s leadership.
Be encouraged. Pray. Work within your leadership.
I’ve tossed songs for different congregations for the simple reason that it wasn’t our prayer for that season.
Don’t lose hope.
Love bridget
[...] love reading blogs. Many of you have given me some great things to think about this week. You’ve challenged me, encouraged me, made me laugh and you’ve kept me on my toes. My life needs to be an example of my [...]
What Do I Have To Give? « inWorship said this on October 26, 2007 at 1:17 am |
Hi Mandy. I appreciate your heart and the process of taking worshiping our God and entering into His presence seriously. We sing that song often at our little baptist church as well, and no one ever raises their hands, but i wonder if its possible to sing the song as a figurative song rather than a literal one? Is it possible to help a congregation that doesn’t want to be too outwardly expressive sing those words as a figurative idea that in our hearts we are raising out hands to the Lord? Our Church is also a more traditional Chinese church, and Chinese Culture is not expressive traditionally.
Also, could it be sung as a future hope for what worship will look like before the actual throne of grace one day? I think off all the people in the Old Testament who spoke about a risen messiah even though that wasn’t true for them in the present tense because in their lifetimes they would never see the messiah or His resurrection. But i think they spoke with confidence in the present tense because of a future hope. I wonder if that could be true for us and our singing of raising hands in the present tense for the future hope of a fully picture of worship one day before Jesus Christ Himself?
I played in the worship band at my friend’s Baptist church for a year. While it’s not an issue at my own church, I was a little surprised that they included songs with reference to dancing (eg. “I could sing of Your love forever”) Are there other songs your church prefers to not use because of the congregation’s traditional responses in worship?
Well, I didn’t read all 36 responses but this is a heated subject. Here’s my take. I currently attend a church not associate with any organization but with pentecostal roots. I have been a member of a Baptist church admittedly thier worship was a little more demostrative then most Baptist.
At our church, the worship is fairly “free”. If I choose to bow down during worhip (in my row) no one would really pay attention…because they are also worshipping not eying other people. Worship has become an intimate act between me and God.
I heard a minister tell this story and it is true…let me see if I can sum it up. A minister had a guy in his congregation who was very stoic during worship. He didn’t clap, raise his hands, or really even sing…very reserved. The pastor was trying to build some repore with the guy. The guy told him, that he just doesn’t “do that”. So one day the guy invites the pastor to a football game. The pastor said he wasn’t all that interested in the game. Their local team (college) hadn’t won a game in years. But he went anyway just to spend time with the guy. The game wasn’t terribly exciting. But at one point, the defense intercepted the ball…the guy from his church was standing up yelling, “Run, you fool..RUN!!”. The guy was so excited. The guy looked at the pastor and asked him, “Why aren’t you getting excited?” The pastor said, “I just don’t do that”. The point is, we will act like maniacs at football games or concerts but when it comes to Jesus Christ our savior we “just don’t do that”. Worship is a choice! You either choose to do it or you don’t.
Mandy,
You have a great heart for your congregation and a sensitivity to where they are that is admirable. I fear that I do not possess the same patience. My question would be, “How do we meet people where they are in worship, and at the same time encourage them to grow in the worship of our Lord?”. Is that the place of the worship leader?
Merry Christmas from Vintage.
Hi Mandy,
My name is Tammy and I have just accidently ran into the “Women in Worship” website. While on there getting opinions about whether or not to lead worship from behind the keyboard I ran into one of your blogs. Although we are from different denominations and different states(my husband and I are youth pastors at an A/G church in Panama city, Florida) I immediately connected with your heart for the Lord and desire to serve him and your congregation with your worship. I have been our youth worship leader for a few years now and have spent alot of time teaching the worship team what is is to truly worship and what kind of worship God will honor, etc.. I am one of the first women in our church to really step out into a leadership role and it has been my first experience really moving ahead into “unknown territory”, but God has been with me every long, painful and scary step and he has moved in services and changed lives in powerful ways, YET, I am astounded at the constant journey I am on to figure true worship out and learn really what it’s all about. There is a leap in my spirit that I felt as I read some of your blogging and heard you speak from your heart. It was like I was silently screaming “There’s another one out there!”. I have not heard any of your music yet as my sound on my home computer is not working properly, but I printed out the song you wrote for Good Friday and played it on my keyboard and was so moved. It really struck a chord inside me and spurned my worship to the Lord in a way that I have really been longing for lately. Thanks. This is my first attempt at blogging(all I have is a my space) so I don’t really have anywhere that you can learn alot about me, but your welcome to check out my, my space? As you have stated it can be very draining, dry and lonely at times to be in ministry and though my husband is my biggest supporter and fan he is not a women and his passion is not to lead people into the presence of God through worship, his calling is to Pastor and disciple those people. So, it does seem like a lonely road at times and it is so encouraging to meet you and hear your heart. Thanks for taking the time to share. Many blessings!
Thanks
Hey, is this thread still looked at?
I pastor our music and arts ministry here (one of the hats I wear). I have read your post and all the comments and wanted to offer some insight.
Our church is a “blended” congregation. We have some elderly, regular baptist folks, the typical “middle aged evangelical Christian” types with kids in Jr High, young marrieds with kids, and the ever elusive mid-20’s single men and women. So I empathize with your position.
A real question I would challenge you to ask is what are the stated goals of your worship? You need to have it be more than “blending musical styles”, trying to accomodate the likes and preferences for every person with every song. Where do you want your people to move to with worship? Part of leading people is having a clear picture where God wants you to go, and then orienting all you do in ministry to get there. Realizing that some will move quickly, most will move slowly, and some won’t move at all. Unfortunately, these “non-movers” usually dictate the direction and speed for everyone else. And more unfortunately, leaders in general are too worried about stepping on toes to be the visionary leader for a move of God. This is not to say you write everyone off who does not agree with you. It just means that if God has given you direction, at some point you need to pursue it and let the chips fall where they may. Again, I would ask if you have really crystalized where you want your people to be.
Another question I have for you is do you have the support of your teaching pastor? I don’t mean tacit approval. I mean are you on the same page with the vision for worship? Again, simply “blending” styles is just the beginning. Is the pastor admonishing your people stop being consumers when it comes to muscial style, but rather to be participants in and with God in changing how you worship? Is he challenging your people to sacrifice their wants for the greater mission of God?
In addition, do you think your people trust you as a worship leader to lead them appropriately?
As far as the lyrics of songs, in my opinion, while it is admirable to be concerned about the authenticity in worship of singing words that are not accompanied by actions, it seems that you and the comittee have over-analyzed this one. Seriously, using your logic, you would have to throw out almost all the songs, hymns or whatever, as oftentimes they are singing words which don’t reflect your heart at the time.
Again, it falls back on what is your goal for worhsip? Our music should teach us about Jesus, contain deep theology, and be musically appealing. That is what Eph 5:16-19 and Col 3:15-18 are teaching. Just a suggestion, look at your master list and see how many of the songs are focued on “I” or on the “individual”, rather than on Jesus.
Personally, I think that much of what passes as “Christian” music is baby’s milk which focuses on the worhiping the individual rather than Jesus. Many of our songs at Grace are taken directly from scripture, some are original compostitions, or are hymns. However, most hymns were musically written for a society that no longer exists, so we change them stylistically, updating them for modern ears, all with electric guitars, drums, bass, keys, vocals,etc. And some resented that. Unfortunately, some of those people left. Yet God continues to bless our church because we are moving where He wants and have realized the cold hard truth that you can’t please everyone, all the time.
I know this is long, and I sure hope you are still reading this
.
Blessings,
Matt Bayley
Grace Fellowhip
I do not agree with this decision.
Whereas I understand the concept that you do not want your congregation singing songs they do not fully mean, we must also firmly grasp that which is most important: we do not now, nor will we ever in this lifetime get things exactly right. If we wait until we are able to worship in a way that fits the song “well enough”, we will never worship at all. Almost every major worship song is out of the question for singing if you hold it up to the same standard you have held up to this song (the lyrics of which are some of the most biblical lyrics you will find in today’s worship music!). Consider songs like “At The Cross” by Hillsong ‘At the cross I bow my knee, where Your blood was shed for me.’ No one is literally bowing at the cross, nor are we humanly capable of creating within our minds or spirits an image, thought, or feeling worthy of comparing with this action. The same can go for songs as timeless and valuable to our faith as “Amazing Grace” — “I once was lost, but now am found. Was blind, but now I see.” I assume that the majority of your congregation was never blind, and to be entirely honest, is not capable of fully seeing the truth, simply glimpses of the mystery of the power of Christ’s resurrection.
Like many of the posts before me, I agree that worship is a part of our sanctification — something we grow in and move through. I also would say that as a worship leader, you have a responsiblity to encourage your congregation to worship biblically.
I hope this helps! As a fellow worship leader and child of God, I am encouraged to know you are seeking His will for your congregation. My simple encouragement is this: do not overlook the grace and significance of Christ so much that our failure to grasp Him fully keeps us from worshiping Him!